Police Dogs and Racism – Michael Goosby Episode 107

California Assembly Bill CA AB740 is being presented by California Assemblyman Corey Jackson. This bill aims at eliminating the use of police canines (k9s) in many situations including apprehending potentially dangerous suspects. He claims the bill will help right the wrongs of the past – a “carryover from a dark past.” He uses inciteful language such as: “The use of police canines has inflicted brutal violence and lifelong trauma on Black Americans and communities of color,” and more.

This type of language will create knee-jerk reactions among policymakers and place many people, especially those in under-served communities in great danger. We’ve seen the problems things like defunding the police does to communities and I hope this video will open people’s eyes to the true benefit of police canines.

Michael Goosby is a decorated LAPD police officer, he served as chief K9 trainer for the LAPD and has been a police officer for over 30 years! I can’t imagine a person better qualified to talk on this topic than him. This chat will give you great insight from a man of the highest character, a police k9 expert, and a man of color who cares about people.

I hope that Assemblyman Jackson will watch this video and rethink his position or at least sit down with someone like Michael to educate himself on this topic. I’m assuming he didn’t before proposing / writing this bill.

Please contact Assemblyman Jackson here to voice your concern:
1021 O Street, Suite 6120, P.O. Box 942849 Sacramento, CA 94249-0060

District Office #1:
18700 Lake Perris Drive Perris, CA 92571

Use this link to find your representative, and make them aware that you oppose this bill:

Police dogs SAVE LIVES… lives of black and brown Americans as well as all other law abiding citizens. People have a right to feel safe, in particular those living in high crime neighborhoods – police canines offer that!

Check out my online dog training at:

Learn to be a dog trainer:

Check out Michael:
Instagram: @k9goodguy

Here’s a link to the proposed bill:

#policedogs #k9 #police

You know I don't care if you're black or White or Jewish or Christian or Muslim Whatever when you're screaming stuff It's got to make sense it's got to make Sense right so when you're telling me And this guy is a black guy screaming This you know everybody wants to say oh We have to but he's wrong he's dead Wrong dead wrong on this subject he is Dead wrong and I don't know the guy from Adam no I don't either but I know on This subject he's dead wrong Michael you're back I'm back yes Different conditions now a totally Different job you're doing though I'm in Plain clothes I know I don't know You were on LAPD for 32 and a half years Wow yeah it's crazy long time and you Finally uh I pulled the plug cut the Leash I cut the leash well I didn't cut The lease completely I still hold Lesions but okay yeah he's still Training right still training yes okay So what what's your uh new thing I know You don't want to go into too many Details oh so now I work as uh executive Protection for a CEO of a bank okay cool But a lot of no dogs involved no dogs Involved okay not yet you better get it Who talks yeah who knows the future Holds right exactly yeah you got to put Dogs in dogs need to be everywhere Everywhere I'm with that you still got Dogs I still have dogs yeah what do you

Have I have a little Bichon frize Perfect Dylan IPO three or two ipo4 I Made it up he's really good That's all that's something yeah that's The only dog I have right now wow yeah Okay I'm looking you know you guys on That right dog it's gonna hit you the Right way the right time what was the Last dog you had that was a protection Dog the last dog that I had that was a Personal protection dog was my dog Caesar and that was your dog on the Force no no he was a uh he was a Protection dog that bought for uh fall For celebrity or an athlete and uh he Ended up not having time to take care of Him and he gave them to me he went to Germany to get this dog and everything And he was the best dog we've ever had Wow yeah he died that early this early Last year oh I'm sorry yeah German Shepherd yeah that's how I got Maya yeah Mine was bought by somebody to breed her Right and then um then I was going to Train her and the other guy was gonna Take her and then I was like she'd only Get along with females and she and they Had a puppy female puppy and I said you Don't want this dog right you wanted I Was like you just don't want dogs the Same age because I got goofy in my They're both 12 13. oh yeah but I ended Up with her so yeah I get that no I was Good he was we had the dog he was paying

Me for a while to take care of to keep The dog I had that too and then finally Like hey you know what this is Carson Right I'll take him yeah yeah that's Fine so he was an IPO three dog he was Yeah he was nice he was a beautiful dog Phenomenal dog yeah every once in a While that happened yeah he was a Thomas Hospital okay Exactly exactly Um one thing I want to talk to you about Today is um something that's going on It's I I'm glad you're here because We're going to talk about a bunch of Different dog stuff but there's a bill In California I think this really Relates to you because you were head of LAPD canine right so this assembly bill 7742. And I was taken aback by it being a dog Guy But there was some language in there That I was a little concerned about Right right like I don't want to see People unjustly hurt because they're Black gay transgender you know foreign Whatever their belief is right and I Feel this bill is written in a way That in my opinion it's kind of like Stoking some real dangerous stuff Absolutely you know and and it makes me Think you know I I know dogs you know Dogs I don't think

It's right the way it's written so can We talk about that today absolutely um Because let's look at it and it's a bill That what they're really trying to do do You know the bill pretty well I do okay So why don't you talk about instead of Me talking about it because you're more Interesting right so what they're trying To do Is do away with bite dog so to speak in The state of California you know and the Problem with it though is that I was really surprised I was talking About it earlier is that the one Arena Where dogs are really control wise and Working wise and really well trained is Here on the West Coast you know and the Good part about that is because we all Pretty much do the same thing you know And we're all on top of our game Training and that starts at the very Beginning if you go to Adler horse International you go to see the reavers I mean they're putting in work They're putting it and they're not just Certifying dogs I've been on trips with With Dave Reaver and Mike Reaver and I See dogs that I think are phenomenal and They're like yeah you know what I'm not Gonna take that dog yeah it's the same Thing in their classes if they see you In the class this dog can't get the Control levels they want they're gonna Take that dog out of class and Handler

New dog yep you know and the problem With this bill though is that they're Not being realistic about it and what They're trying to do is bring up a Racial component to it to stoke the Fires in everybody's brains because if You say something's racial it Automatically is wrong yeah without a Doubt it's wrong you know and that's not The case right I mean do black people Get bit absolutely yeah do brown people Get bit yeah absolutely yeah do white People get bit yeah absolutely do Asians Get bit absolutely I was going to say Asians yeah but but but at the same time Yeah do are most black people found are They bit nope right are most white People found are they bit nope the Majority of people we find aren't bit I Think LAPD right now and I was just Looking at it because I was there last Week I think they're bite ratio right Now Is right around 19 20 okay so that means Out of a hundred dogs that are sent out A hundred searches twenty percent end in A bite that means of of uh not that just Sent out because we if we go with how Many times have been sent out yeah that Number drops even more I'm saying these Are Bonafide people that were found by The dog oh okay only 20 of them are 19 Or 20 of those people were made or the Dog made contact with them the dog bit

Them well exactly so the way LAPD does Their bite ratio is it's fines versus Bites so how many people do we find and How many of those people did we bite And that's what we look at yeah we don't Look at it by deployment we look at it By deployment saying hey we did 2 000 searches and now that 2000 Searches only 20 people got bit oh our Buyers should be away it'd be really low But we're being realistic about it and That's and that's the part that they're Not putting out there yeah we're very Realistic about it we could very easily Say hey we did 2 000 searches and only Five people got bit well how many did You find well we only found five oh so You only found five but you bit five Right so we've been honest about it Though yeah these are people we found And those people we found these are the Amount of people that got bit wow 20 Percent yes and on on those statistics Are what what kind of people are they Sent out to find like so common they're Sent out to find people that broke the Law it's a number one thing as a matter Of you again the color allegedly Allegedly yeah allegedly but I can run The colors the spectrum of the rainbow Okay it's the first thing is are you an On a misdemeanor suspect who's Reasonably believed to be armed if You're reasonably believed to be armed

We're going to search for you if you are If you are allegedly committed if you're Allegedly committed a felony we're gonna Search for you and what I mean by search For you mean that the police have Actively tried to stop you you actively Resisted and ran away and found some Place to go hide and then they call us And they said containment up they call The canines in and the canines go out There and search for the suspect okay That's how most departments operate in The state so I want to talk about that Because your your makeup and this is Really important we break this down a Person has already if invaded the police Yes so it's not like just like oh go Here's a dog go find this guy no so We've already made con some kind of Contact with that absolutely okay we've Made contact we've given commands all Those things okay and this is just the Dog now is just our one more further Step in our Arena of de-escalation and Because a dog is a de-escalation tool Yeah let's talk about it you know so if You think about like this you know if I Take six cops and say hey go search that One block perimeter For this outstanding suspect First of all it's going to take them way Longer than with a dog so we were Talking about taking a uh maybe a one Hour search with a dog turn it into like

A four or five hour surgery six offices But what you lose though is you lose That ability of reaction time reaction Time for the the officers and reaction Time for the suspect and what I mean by That is If those officers are searching and it Also pops a trash can open and he has His gun down and he pops the trash can Open he looks in there there's two Seconds between him and that suspect is What's going to happen next and that two Section is built off perception what I See in this hand are perceived to be a Gun Does he perceive me as a threat so one Of us can be hurt that can be really bad For one of us okay it can be very deadly For one of us or both of us Change that scenario and add a dog to it The dog goes to the trash can he barks At it he lets us know that the suspect Is in a trash can now we have the Ability to do a few things number one Call the dog back to us then get cover So now we put ourselves in position Whereas even if if this person decides To start not listening we're in a Position of advantage and position Safety so we still have reaction time Right but then the best thing happens We're able to communicate now and Negotiate with that suspect and have Dialogue so we just turned this whole

Thing into a talking game now as a Poster I was putting our hands on him Game or a taser game or a shooting game Because one of the things they're saying Is that the taser is less lethal but What you're saying to me now is You might not even need to deploy the Laser absolutely Sorry by using a dog Absolutely so why aren't people talking About that because they don't want that Narrative to get out there right they Only want to show the bad part of it now Let's not be crazy do bad things happen Sometimes when you use a dog absolutely Sure but bad thing bad things happen When I'm a cop and don't have a dog yeah Bad things happen in any Arena right but They want to focus on that and I can Tell you though that there's more good To it just this morning I was watching The news as I was getting ready for work And then Mission Hills not too far from Here and over the hills in the valley They had an armed robbery of a Convenience store or something like that Three or four suspects as a police pull Up they all start running well these Three four suspects don't run back into The store they run into the adjacent Neighborhood yep so now you see the Officers and then there's the Airship The helicopter did the big pan on it Thinking about three or four blocks Contained so these three or four guys

Are somewhere within these three or four Blocks right how do The politicians who want to put forth This bill what would they have us do in That situation right would they rather We fold our things up and leave they Absolutely would but there's one group Of people who would not want that and Those are the people who are in those Homes right there okay they might be Black and brown black and brown exactly Exactly because at that time again They don't care if the bad guy is black Brown or green right I don't want this Arm suspect in my yard I don't disarm Suspect trying to get into my house I Can't tell you how many canine switches I've been on where we've actually found The suspect that has made his way into Someone's house inside inside Inside and guess what there are black People who've come to the door like uh Hey uh you know we're searching the Yards for suspects do you have any same Thing and they give you that look and They're kind of looking behind them You know right do me a favor come Outside for a second yeah so again They want that to happen now don't again They don't want bad things happening They don't want bad police work Happening but they but they want us There yeah I mean I see so much of this And I mean I'm I'm a white guy as white

As you'd be I just have such an issue With this black and white divide that I Don't think happens between you and me We're friends absolutely or my other Friends who might be of color or Whatever I think it's something that's Just it's just shoved on us from like The white guy hates you and the black Guy he's this or it's like it's just It's just I swear it's freaking nuts it Is and it's it angers me it is every Time somebody is stoking that flame I Think somebody's got to speak out Absolutely and that's why I wanted to Talk to you about this because Let's talk about it for a second when You're talking about deploying a dog Like I mean people always say oh the Dog's gonna bite the guy because he's Black I mean that's about as nutty as I've ever heard the dog has no clue Right he has no clue what color you are He has no clue he just knows that he is Working air scent he is looking for that Concealed scent and you happen to be it The dog doesn't know if you're black Brown yeah Asian and I didn't care Doesn't care dog has no clue it doesn't Care right you know and and more Importantly be honest with you we don't Care right why would we right why would We yeah you know and Oh there's some bad white people in the World absolutely yeah are there some bad

Black people in the world sure Absolutely but you and I get along with Each other because what I'm not bad to You you're not bad to me it's just that Simple really and I don't think you know Like since the first time I met you we Don't see it like that you know I don't See I don't count my black friends or my Gay friend or right it's just they're Either friends or they're not and I Absolutely I dislike black people Equally as white people absolutely you Know there's no there's no bias in there But I think an important part to talk About here is How amazingly well dogs and police Officers are protecting people because a Primary a primary area of crime is under Funded areas poor areas right so I'd Like to talk about that a little bit and That's that's a good point that's a good Point because but what's funny though is That Nine times out of ten they're not the Ones talking it's the one talking for Them yeah I remember when I first Started this new job and I was in New York if we're in New York you know of Course that weekend in New York they're Like 18 shootings in this neighborhood Wow it's right from New York PD it just Stopped they had just disbanded their Street crimes unit and these other units And they're like 18 shootings there was

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A child killed and I remember watching The news And these black ministers came on the News and they're like look we're talking To you NYPD we're not the ones who told You not to be over in our neighborhood We need you here yeah we didn't call for Defunding you to be in our neighborhood We need you guys here we need your help Here and that's that's the thing yeah You know that's the thing if you Actually sit down and talk with folks That live in a neighborhood there's a Good relationship with them at police a Very good relationship you know when I Came on the job the majority of my train Officers white officers and uh we worked In uh Southeast Division okay and these Guys had a they they they knew who's who In the zoo they knew their grandmothers They knew the mothers and there was Respect there sure there's respect there Are people that will fix dinner for on Christmas invite these guys over and all Of us over because they're perspective The neighborhood would come down to our Stations on if we worked holidays and Bring food and stuff because there's Respect there and they're letting us Know we appreciate you being here yeah You know and that's the thing that I Think that uh doesn't get pushed out as Much I agree I agree it doesn't get Pushed out to the floor right now right

But it's just it's just stoking because I think it's an easy way to get Attention now it is you know we talk About the Dog Training Positive only we Talked about this and it's just this CR It's just the more radical you become on One side the more attention you're gonna Get because like oh that's crazy and and I think that's what's scaring us and That is a scariest though but again they Go back to things That happen A long time ago sure I mean for example Okay one of the things in the bill is About using dogs during protests yeah Okay You don't see that here no that's not That's that's against our department Policy right that's not happening here Yeah so if it's not happening It why are you bringing that up why are You adding that to it because you're Trying to get something to stoke that Fire yep you know everyone can remember Back to the Civil Rights era when dogs Are being used against black folks and I Get that yeah that's not happening well You can go all the way back you can say Well in Nazi Germany exactly against Dudes exactly now in this bill it talks About the slave trade exactly I mean We're just I think it's picking at Straws it is I'm sorry it is and it's And if you're going if you're going to

Put a bill forward if you're going to Talk about the issues yeah then let's Talk about the current issues what are The dogs currently doing well how are The dogs currently being used because I Can sit down with them explaining to Them I'll tell you how the dogs being Used A suspect commits a crime the police go To make contact with a suspect that Suspect decides to either fight or get Away a perimeter set up they call the Police in the canines come they go Search for the suspect it's pretty Simple You know and just because I'm a cop and I'm Pro dog doesn't mean that I'm I'm Not pro-human right you know I don't Like to see people being hurt unjustly Sure you know so do I think it's okay to Have four or five officers on top of a Guy and all sudden I bring a dog and Walk him up and put the dog on for Paying compliances no I don't think That's okay yeah no and I think if you Talk to most canine animals like yeah no That's not okay and that's the thing They're not putting out though they're Not they're not putting out that We're professionals here yeah so let me Ask you this question the guy who wrote This I think is an assemblyman named Jackson or something Um did he talk to any police a guy with

Your experience of course not you don't Think he did no because I would have Thought what would you have told him if He would have come to you I would tell Me exactly what I'm telling you right Now we sat down and talked about the Issues what's your current issue if he Says well I don't like the dogs being Used during protest oh great okay let's Knock that one off because we don't do That okay what's your next issue now Right well I don't like uh suspects Being bit well I don't either I don't Like suspects being shot okay right yeah But it happens okay as part of it it's The course of business you know and it's And I don't say that lightly no of Course you know I don't say that lightly But if you if you pick up guns someone's Gonna get shot if you use a dog Someone's gonna get bit eventually yeah You know it's impossible to do that but One way to not have that happen is when The police stops them initially Give up yeah and we're done with it here Yeah it saves a lot it saves a lot it Does you know but and again though but The dog's being used doesn't necessarily Mean that someone's going to be bit I think that's a great point that 20 20 Correct out of a hundred so that's one Out of 100 end in a byte correct now Let's go back to that how can we talk About severity of the bytes yes okay so

Let's talk about that the majority of This so LEP the way we do it is uh you Do huge bark and hold we do use barking We do use bark and hold but I mean but Again that's me big dictate on suspect's Actions so and someone's gonna people Get bit talk let's talk about that Before we get into the other part so Bark and hold means you send the dog to Dog Corners dominates the person barks And Barks and Barks and if that person Stands still should not be a bite should Not be a bite right but if they fight Try to get away they're gonna get bit Okay but here's the thing and unless I Don't want to get hung up on a barking No no because if I put if I put our Numbers against most people in the most Departments in the country even though We bark and hold you're gonna find that We probably have more bites in most of These other departments and the reason Why is we just search for more people Right of course we find more people so Yeah exactly bigger population so I Don't want people to sit here and think Oh they got the Barking holes they're The perfect guys doesn't work that way I Agree it doesn't work that way right so Let's talk about the severity of the Device when the dog goes in and actually Does make contact with somebody how Often is it a let's call it a severe Bite right can you talk about that yeah

Without a doubt so for us we have two Types of bites we have uh a bite that's Going to be handled by the canine Sergeants in the in the unit okay and That's your everyday go out and find a Bad guy he gets found and if he or she Gets bit then we're gonna do a canine Contact investigation that's the Majority of our bikes but every now and Then we have we call categorical bites And categorical bites are when a suspect Is hospitalized after being bit by the Dog Now here's the funny thing about that Because when you hear that on the Surface or the suspect was admitted to The hospital after being bit by the dog What does it make you think uh like Major advice exactly it makes you think It's a major bite right but I can tell You without a doubt 75 and I'm not even Joking on the numbers 75 to almost 80 Percent of the suspects that have to be Admitted to the hospital after a dog Bite is not due to severe bite it's due To the fact that they the doctors want To administer antibiotics overnight That's the majority of them that's the Majority of them okay and it's funny Because we had one of those And we're sitting in our uh so whenever We have a bite like that it goes to use The Force review board you have an Assistant chief there or Deputy Chiefs

And commanders you have the inspector General's office you have and again so All this oversight you have you have the Expected General's office you have the Trainers from the academy you have the Captain of the the division involved You're the captain over canine so all This is a table of about 15 to 20 people That are going over this one incident as Much oversight is over this thing right So we're in one of those and uh they Play the body worn video which Everything is on body one video that's Another that's another piece of Oversight and the suspect is screaming Like bloody murder and everyone around The table are like oh my God yeah I mean You would think he was being eviscerated Right and I'm just sitting there because I know what the bite looks like already Yeah I know I'm listening and they're Going crazy and everything and it gets To the point and then the uh the force Investigation division investigator says I'll now show you the suspect's injuries He shows a picture of the suspect's Injuries there may be worth two little Puncture marks and maybe like low Wealthy scratches there right and They're all looking like I go yes he was More afraid he thought he was being Killed but he wasn't yeah of course I Mean if I'm in a bush I'm gonna scream Exactly right but my point to it was he

Sounded like he was being killed it's Not like bloody murder but the energy Wasn't that bad and the reason why is Because We're not lingering the dogs aren't on The bite we're standing talking about it So when you go tonight what do you want To do I don't know what are you gonna do Right well we're dealing with it right Now yeah we're giving can Master the Suspect we're giving commands to the dog We're ending this thing pretty quickly I Mean the average dog bite if you look Around if you especially in the state of California I can't speak for most Departments sure you know but I can Speak for a lot of departments here Because I train with them I do train Them yeah the majority of bikes are like Maybe two to two seconds to six seconds Sure that's about one day that only Leaves longer it just seems longer Exactly especially if you're going to Buy the internet of course yeah yeah it Seems longer you know but we're not Getting those big time severe bites now Do they happen absolutely they do there Are times when we have severe bites yes The suspect is fighting he's thrashing You know that does happen sure without a Doubt you know or it may be a case where The dog is on the bite and the Handler's Trying to recall the dog and the suspect Is holding the dog yep you know that

Happens I mean we had one where The suspect was under a uh a steak bed Truck that was off its tires it's kind Of like it's just about so much space Underneath it the dog found in there the Dog made contact with them and the Handler's drinking the dog come out and The suspect is holding the dog and so The bite was more severe in that Situation because we're actually getting Their tasty guy making that go the dog Take the dog off so those things happen Yeah you know but majority of those Bites aren't that severe yeah but also Isn't this there's two parts I want to Talk about one is It's I know Dave Reaver the from Atlas Talks about this it's less than lethal Yes like if you were not gonna send a Dog you probably don't have the option To taser somebody you know in a trash Can no without a hundred yards without a Doubt so what's the option what's the Other option and that's the question so You talk about a trash can so we had a Shooting we had an officer involved Shooting we're under a car it doesn't Matter but but yeah we had a shooting Once where uh Suspect uh gets into a shootout the CHP They exchanged gunfire He gets away about a week later that Suspect uh an LAPD gang unit Northeast Gang unit could be on the same suspect

He's in a stolen car They light him up he goes in Pursuit uh The suspect crashes gets out and he runs Away and they chase after him then they Decide okay he's We lost him they set a perimeter up Dog finds him K9 Max in the Handler Gina Homestream she sends Max in he's Searching he hits a roll of trash cans He comes one boom hit the trash can she Calls Max back to her everyone gets Covered because his arm suspect they get Cover and all they see is the trash can Opens up the guy looks around like this And it closes back up and they're still Talking to him they're still Communicating no dog no dog dogs back Now trash can opens up He does that again he does that about Three times the last time the trash can Comes open he comes out with two guns Blazing he ends up hitting one officer And my point to that is Can we imagine the outcome if an officer Walked up and poked his head in that Trash can and that guy's sitting there Yeah and here's the thing we're using Dogs too and a lot of people think it's Inhumane when I say this But I mean it I never have to tell puppies that Mom or Dad's not coming home But human officers kids we got to tell Them that yeah hey we're sorry mom or

Dad ain't coming home yeah you know and And that's the part they don't put out There yeah they don't understand the Amount of lives they're being saved Because we use this dog yeah you know And that's a huge thing I don't like When dogs get hurt you know I actually Despise it but I understand it's it's It's necessary for the game yep you know It's necessary it's gonna if it saves The suspect from being killed and also If you're being killed then I'm all for It and I think that's a big piece what You just said there maybe the suspect Doesn't get shot by the police exactly He gets bit and detained and you can Hold back I can't tell you how many Suspects have we found where they're There with their gun and because a dog Was used it through their whole mindset Off right Without a doubt yeah so yeah I've had so And and listen and let's not be let's Not beat around the butcher either okay The dog is not super dog it's not Superman no we've had shootings where The dog is actually on the bite and the Suspect is still firing at us yep you Know so it's not an end dog to end all Right but it gave us their reaction time Though it put us at a little bit more Distance away from this guy you know and It's very easy To sit somewhere and want to dictate how

The police police yep it's very easy to Do that yeah but it ain't so easy when You're the one in that backyard and it's Dark you know you got that shotgun in Your hand that pistol in your hand and That dog got in front of you that's a Different ball game yeah well that's What they talked about remember the Movie Sully the one with the playing the Atlanta Hudson River and they said you Should have done they should have done That and they accounted for this but They didn't account for the fact that he Had to act that moment absolutely and When a police officer is out there and The adrenaline's going and no matter who You are skilled fighter whatever your Adrenaline's pumpkin absolutely right Yes so I think it's an important point To talk about also how we're using Police dogs not only to protect the Public And the police but also the suspect I Want to kind of touch on that a little Bit absolutely like so I send it again I'm not going to shoot them I mean a Taser might mess up his heart I mean the People have died people have died from Tasers people have died from bean bags Yeah absolutely so here's the thing okay So people have died from bean bags People have died from tasers people have Died from being choked you know that's Those stories absolutely has anybody

Ever died from a dog bite they're having A couple there have been a few that have Died Percentage-wise I'd say well heck There's only been like two or three out Of the hundreds of thousands of dog Deployments in the country so we could Probably say that maybe that would be Among the lowest yes definitely among The lowest so yes and and a lot of times Those have extinguishing circumstances Along with issues not so much the Severity of the bite right you know Those are things we have to look at as Well you know you know Police dog bites aren't pretty no no dog Bites are pretty no dog bites are pretty You know and more people get bit by Yourself Please don't yeah I know that yeah yeah Exactly you know but police workers are Pretty sometimes right but it's a Necessity you know and and what people Don't understand is that just because It's not necessity to you because you Live in this nice neighborhood with the Gated community and so on and so forth And have private security and private Patrol and you're in your in your phone Number and home on a special location List for the police department and for The fire department that if your number Goes out you're gonna have five cops There yep well guess what what about

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What about Miss Jackson who'll have that Yeah okay exactly what about her what About people who don't have that so it's Important for them yeah just because Yeah it may not be the thing that you Need right you know and and for a lot of Them I want to bet the guy that wrote This his only interaction with the Police well he probably not even driving His own car at this point yeah yeah but His own interaction generally is what if He could stop for a ticket yep yep That's his interaction that's his level Of dealing with the police yeah you know You have people that do the police Whether it be good better and different In certain neighborhoods all the time Yeah you know but there are a lot of People who deal with the police and it's Not a bad thing no I mean how many Community groups are out there sure Without a doubt you know we had it as Funny we had a uh we had a lawsuit from A uh from a bite with uh my second dog And what happened was he was searching For a suspect and he goes into it's he's In a garage and I was in the Hamilton of Times another hand at a time but he goes Into a garage and He uh the homeowner opened the door and A dog just goes right by him searching He's thinking open he starts searching Well the Handler realizing called his Dog back and the homeowners are now

Kicking at the dog when he's coming by Him and the dog bites him underneath a Little lightweight bite yeah not nothing Major right but uh we never ended up Going to court and then everyone to Accept the seller man with the court but They got they they want some monetary Damage in that in that during that of Course that trial but what was funny to Me is that when the trial was over the Jury because I I was a canine expert on That case right the jury brought the dog A huge basket of Bones and treats and They said yeah That was awesome no it was so because They understood yeah they understood That they understood what happened they Understand and we weren't saying it that That should have happened right and we Owned up to it yeah you know and that's The other side of the coin too you know Talking about own up to things He doesn't mentioning that we police Ourselves okay if you talk to the Handlers in LAPD K-9 when I was over Them they would tell you times where I Said oh you know what I'm taking your Dog from you you know what you're on Timeout well you know what this job's Not for you right because The actions of one are going to affect The actions of many and that's just the Way it is and there's a standard and as Much as people don't want to believe it

Or don't want to put it out there there Is a standard to doing police work sure There's a standard to handling dogs There's a standard to working dogs yeah And if you fall below that standard we Don't want you yep you know because this Is a professional thing this is our game This is what we this is what we enjoy Doing sure so if you're not doing it Right we don't want you either and they Don't put that out there though well I Think it's always this when I grew up You know I grew up in Jersey and Florida Cops were like heroes yes you know and To me you guys still a lot I mean the Cops military your job really is to keep People safe yes and when I see you know I mean I think police in the inner city Is important because those kids have to Go to school they have to go to school And they have to be safe yes every you Know okay in the in Malibu and you know Beverly Hills and stuff there's not as Much crime obviously it's coming right But there's not as much so you don't Have as much police present exactly and I mean I seem to think that I mean maybe It's a myopic view on my side but I seem To think that you know you bring food Where people are hungry you're being Police where there is crime in order to Eradicate that crime not in order to Hurt people who are innocent or or even You know even if it's just you know

Reducing the fear and incidence of crime You know just just the presence of being There might reduce that you know for Sure or you know if these two guys Commit a crime and they run from the Police and then a helicopter comes out And the perimeter can set up and dogs go Out and we go find these guys you don't Know what it might be thinking somebody Else oh yes okay note to self yeah I'll Just go ahead and give up next time Right I won't I won't put myself in that Position yep you know but it also it Also sends a message though it sends a Message to the bad guy hey we are going To come for you yeah if you victimized Our community members we're going to Come for you and if we need to have dogs Find you to do it we're going to come For you yeah and that's the part they Don't put out there though I agree but So an interesting chat ahead with Mike Uh river is going to be on the show next Week is we talked about People say well why don't you guys use Rescue dogs for you know police work and This and that you we hear it all the Time right but one thing we don't look At is that when rescue dogs were used Like in the South during the Civil Rights days these dogs were not trained As nearly to the capacity where you guys Are dealing with nowhere near they Didn't have the training they didn't

Have genetics right they didn't have the Upbringing again I go back let's just Start the very beginning yeah go back to The times I've gone over it with uh Dave Reaver you know my mentor my hero and And Mike you know a real good friend of Mine those guys are top-notch but I go Back to times about going to purchase Police dogs I've been with them and Their job is they make money from Selling police dogs if they bring back 80 dogs they're going to sell 80 dogs if They bring back 85 dogs they're gonna Sell them but I've been with them when They're like you know what hash dog's Not going to do it Yeah he needs a little bit more work he Needs a little bit more of this so They're right there that's where the Oversight starts they're choosing Certain dogs the right breeding are There any injuries on this dog any Hidden elements that we don't know about What's the dog's temperament like you Know is this dog gonna be eating Everyone up to standing around it They're checking all those things right Is there is there is you know is this Dog neutral to people yeah you know is He is he going to be a jerk he's trying To invite everybody around them sure we Can't use him yeah so there's a process There yeah which is another reason why I Like going to Outdoors to get dogs I see

Them test every single dog they get yeah And when they test those dogs I'm Sitting there watching them and the one Thing I know for sure is that that dog Is gonna be a police dog somewhere it May not be for my program or your Program but someone's program and it's Going to be a solid dog so that's the First thing now we bring this dog back And then we further test it to select The dog for the Handler for the Handler Right in the department right because Now we're testing this we know the dog Has what it takes to be a police dog But it doesn't have what it takes to be A police dog in our program right and I'll say that our program is pretty Strict you know we we operate in the City of La which is a very litigious Arena and so we have a lot of checks and Balances in our canine teams and most K-9 teams don't have you know we have to Do fine and bark we have to use e-collar You know all these things we have to Have in-house training we have to have a Chief trainer if there was training Cadre body one video all these different Things you know dogs have the video too No we haven't yeah right but all these Different things all these checks and Balances over this thing right and a lot Of dogs can't survive that Arena a lot Of dogs don't have that and the other Side of it too though is that

I need to have a confident dog yeah I Needed a dog that can go out and search On his own and have the confidence to Not be a jerk and invite somebody out of Fear you know to have the confidence to Go out and find someone and then Dominate that one person stay with them So that's the other side of it too so we Need certain dogs to do it just like we Need certain cops to be cops sure you Know it's the same thing it's a Temperament it's a temperament thing Every dog can do it you know and they Might look the part but they may not be The part and you're so the other thing Too is so they're buying these dogs in Europe that's no secret right they're Selected very strictly selected yeah I Know and I've been to Adler horse on BI Day when these when these dogs are There's lines of police yes like I said Certain dogs are better for maybe Kern County exactly maybe LAPD maybe La Sheriff or maybe Laguna Niguel exactly So that's the thing but then once the Dog is Placed with that officer of that Department now we're going to enter the Training realm yes right that's Something that we're not talking about And then after the training realm at Adler horse which I'm going to talk with Mike about we don't need to get into it Um now you're taking the dog and now

You're going to add your training that Continues these dogs are continuing Continues training and for us you know It's it's it goes a little bit deeper Than what the post requirements are so Posts has a standard California Peace Officer standard training of what a Well-trained police dog should do and we Go well above that you know we have two Certifications so our first Certification is called a limited Certification that means the dog has Done everything that's needed and been Through all the training has passed all The tests of a fully certified dog but It hasn't proven itself in the field to Us as it's shown us we can do in a real World environment okay it's showing us Everything we need to see in the Training environment so we give it a Limited a limited certification which Means that This dog can only be used to search for Unarmed suspects okay it hasn't proved Himself to anyone yet and it hasn't so We want to get out there and see how it Works in the real world you know and a Real world environment so that and he Has to have an all canine search team Okay all canine house on the search team Most search teams we mix Patrol guys in With our search team and he has to have A trainer and team so just in case There's any hiccups on that search the

Trainer is there so these are all the Oversights are in place and how long Does that go before the he gets to level Two that depends on the dog and the the Level work the dog has received it's not Really a quantity it's more of a quality You know the dog shows me that he has a Strong nose and find he can find someone That we never would have found unless we Had a dog and that's really important You know when we go out as officers we Have this one thing that hurts us and It's our ability to reason sure I can Look at an object and go ah you know What no one's hiding that thing it's too Small Dog didn't think that the dog goes up And sniffs it all right there's somebody In here you know and those are things That you know these dogs go and find Guns because suspects run and throw guns That nose is phenomenal yeah it's Phenomenal you know and so and that's How it is with the human side of things You know someone's hiding in someone's Neighborhood the dog we had I had to Search Once where um I was I was kind of Newer in the unit and I was living in I Was living in 77 Division one of our South Central South La divisions and I Hear a call come out about burglary in Progress and I'm listening to it so I Come on there and say hey uh Airship Over Southwest uh k916 you know I'm on

The air I can start heading down that Way and then uh I turn to attack Frequency and the sergeant down there oh No we don't need canine we just search It ourselves these guys are long gone Well what happened was The lady next door her neighbors are out Of town and she's watching the house Well she saw this she saw two people and Two individuals entered her house and They bring a TV outside it's on their Back porch they go back inside they Bring a VCR I just dated myself so you Know all right Yeah I can't do but they bring a vcr and They put on their back porch and then They disappear back into the house well She calls the police the police come and Uh they searched the house and they come Out and she goes they're in there they Never left They're they're inside that house and They go oh no we took the house they're Good because she's well why don't they Leave the stuff they stole they're in The house so meanwhile I was already in Route there so I get there And uh the sergeant hits me because hey You know just make her happy can we just Go ahead and uh just run the dog through The house I mean these guys are long Gone all right Roger that I'm going to Find two guys Wow I want to find two suspects so and

Before that officers had searched that They searched the same house a complete Complete search and found nothing he Found nothing but the thing is our human Minds make us reason things so the first Guy I found he's under a couch And this is a house that was built like The 1920s you know early the late 20s Early 30s will have the floor furnace Well if you look down at two it's just a Big furnace contravement well you can't See to the sides of it and it's a crawl Space the guy's hiding to the side of That he got it in there his buddy Covering back up with the couch And lo and behold there he is yeah find Number one keep searching the house and The dog is working he gets to like an Outlet he's going crazy scratching an Outlet he's barking at the wall he's Barking and barking what the hell like An electrical like an electrical he's Going crazy And so we're like What the heck I go maybe maybe is there An attic here and they go oh maybe he's An attic so we get there in the attic And you know we search you at it we Search it again well we happen to look Over and it wasn't me that so I was a Probationary officer but hey that that Um that installation looks a little Weird over there I didn't notice that The first time we're here so we go over

And we move the installation and it's Just the walls I mean just you can't see Anything yeah so we get a broomstick and We start going on ding ding ding ding Bonk uh right here the guy is inside the Wall is hidden like that oh my God never Would have found this guy Never would have found them and The the crutch of this is that the People are out of town right get that Part but let's just say they weren't Yeah let's say they weren't out of town And let's say they were out there Waiting for the police to finish Searching their house that someone had Broken into and then we all leave And they go back in there with their Kids with their kids Exactly those are the things they don't Think about those are things they don't Talk about yeah and this is in an area Of Los Angeles absolutely it's Notoriously absolutely poor and minority Absolutely right so yes this is one of The things that I think you know I don't Care if you're black or white or Jewish Or Christian or Muslim whatever when You're screaming stuff It's got to make sense it's got to make Sense right so when you're telling me And this guy is a black guy screaming This you know everybody want to say oh We have to but he's wrong he's dead Wrong dead wrong on this subject he is

Dead wrong and I don't know the guy from Adam no I don't either but I know on This subject he's dead wrong one of the Things he said which I thought was Interesting and you and I both dealt With dog bites he said um They equated a police k n bite to an Officer swinging a baton with three Centimeter spikes attached no I mean I've seen dog bites I'm gonna be honest With you okay I'd rather you have your Dog bite me than you think about time With spikes on it no spikes or no spice Of it thank you okay yeah I'd rather Have the dog fight me without a doubt But I mean again I think this is all the Stuff that's just stoking you know this This regression back to okay the Civil Rights era it was horrible you know Slavery a horrible time but we don't Need to bring that in when we're not Dealing with it and then bringing it in To do something like putting people Especially people in poor under Undercovered areas in more danger Absolutely because we're pandering right Now for sure you know we're pandering And we're making it sound like the sky Is falling yeah and this guy actually Isn't falling because my next question Would be well where was that study Conducted yeah would they show you or a Dog by who is it who's the guy that took That did that for you okay I'm gonna

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Have the dog bite this arm but I don't Have you swinging up a town with spikes On his arm let's see how it looks yeah Come on you're making these things up You make it sound a lot more grandiose So yeah because you're trying to Pander To people trying to get their trying to Stoke the fire to fear and I think That's one of the things that happens And I've been fighting this online Battle with um between dog training but This is one of those things that if I as A white guy go hey this is stupid right Then people go oh well you're racist Right and and I I resent that there's Nothing worse to me to tell me I'm Racist or or homophobic or whatever it Is Stupid is stupid stupid is stupid you Know and this to me shows me that this Is really pandering to people and it's Just trying to get people who are going To just glob on to this idea absolutely You know and white people do it all the Time they go well I don't want to be Seen as racist so I'm gonna yeah I've Got to go along with it right this is a Dangerous policy for minority people who We should be protecting because they're Living in areas that might be more Dangerous well you know black people Beverly Hills yeah that worried about Without a doubt but it's also dangerous For police officers right well we're

Going to get into that too because what Happens when you set the lights comes Out you get all these departments who Have these needs of reactions make this Fear and to them And they start ending programs or Stopping this or putting more Limitations on it but the problem with That too though is that oftentimes They're not being any better than that Politician because you're not booting The ground here yeah and you're just Afraid of what they're saying so you're Gonna I'm gonna fix that I'm gonna do This you know I'm gonna make myself Safer are you really though I didn't Even think about it from that I thought You meant it's more dangerous for police Officers because the people who are you Know they're going to be putting more Things without having to oh without a Doubt but but I like what you're talking Yeah yeah but that's my fear because Again you know these these departments Have knee-jerk reactions when it's being Stuck that's happen yeah because they're Afraid they're afraid yeah they're Afraid and the problem with it though is That It's a dog and not too many people on The police departments know how a dog Works right how he's trained what to Expect you know even them the majority Of the bosses they only know what or the

Dog bites yep so they know because That's only time it comes across their Plate sure you know the again the 400 Searches that occurred no one got bit They don't come across your plate so you Don't think about those you only worry About the three that got on your plate Yep and that becomes problematic you Know and so that and that's where these Kind of bills kind of hurt you know you Get in our department know our Department We've had some knee-jerk reaction to dog Bites there's no secret you know we had A Handler they had a dog and uh the dog Had a categorical bite with another Handler and the categorical bite wasn't A bite where the guy was uh thrashed or Or a lot of bad bite is because of Antibiotics okay well that Handler moves On to another unit moves on the dog gets Handed to another Handler now this Handler is working the dog this is how Deep it goes and people understand this This Hammer is not working the dog His dog gets a bite find the suspect the Guy gets five stitches okay I mean Have we do does anyone actually realize The size of five stitches yeah okay he Gets five stitches and that's because That doctor decided to stitch it I've Seen bites that are probably larger than Five stitches they just hey we're gonna Drain it butterflies in your way but he

Got five stitches this dog was removed From the field the Handler is removed From the field the handler was sent to Behavioral scientists here we're gonna See the behavioral sciences To be interviewed by a psychologist I'm Just saying this but these are the Things that go these are the things that Happen that this guy doesn't see yeah Yeah if the world doesn't see there is Oversight yeah okay yeah for sure and so If this is happening before this Happened right what do we think this Does to now police administrators might Only read that and that's the scary part Of it because they make these knee-jerk Reactions and these knee-jerk reactions Can put your officers in danger well This is something that Stoops and I Talked about too because so many times You've got boots on the ground doing the Hard work and you've got administrators Who are just kowtowing to the political BS right and that's a problem right That's a problem yeah we can't we can't We just we can't operate that way yeah You know I think the best course of Action is to be honest with them for Sure be open and honest with them 100 You know and if and don't get me wrong If someone does wrong or does bad and They're the police oh let's beat the out of them I'm all for it yeah Okay I will take you behind the Woodshed

And put it to you yeah I'm all for that Of course okay but if they're just doing Their jobs then let's be honest about it Yeah that's how the honest conversation Yeah you know and I would be my first Question to be how come these guys and Talk to anyone boots on the ground but That's the problem right so you're Making a law just like people with dog Training every they come down they make Laws but they've never really handled The dog exactly right and the amount of Good things that come out of police work In general but police dogs is really Pretty freaking amazing it is very Amazing you know it is very amazing now Are there guys that do stupid things With dogs absolutely absolutely so for The Handler audience this is their Wake-up call for sure that you need to Be working accordingly you need to be Working according to training you know Good training yeah you know you need to Be on your p's and q's because big Brother is watching they're always Watching Always and I'm not saying you Should be doing better because they're Watching that should be your standard Anyway moral standard it should be a Moral standard anyway if you're not About that if you're only here because You got a cool t-shirt and if I can take Home car yeah yeah yeah sure for sure we Don't need you hurt this with this

You're causing this for us but this is Not only about police you've got police Officers who just abuse pulling people Over yes or you know abuse writing Tickets exactly but it's in every field It's in every field yes it's dog Trainers it's Bakers it's doctors yes in Every field yes in every field you're Going to find that without a doubt yeah You know but If it's something bad let's do it with The bat let's call it I'll do it I'm all For that yeah but let's not just use This big huge paint brush and paint the Whole thing right and say okay now we're Not going to use dogs now because who Are you really hurting when you do that Yeah I mean and that's the thing they Don't think about who are you really Hurting when that happens yeah for sure Okay you're not you're not hurting a guy That's sitting in his house with the Gated Community yep you're hurting the People who live in these neighborhoods Where they're being victimized yeah Where crime is high yeah you know so I Want to ask you a question about that With with for example LAPD because That's your your scope of experience for So many many years is there there's one Canine division right well inside SWAT Well so we have our we have Metro canine Which are working those dogs are used For locating suspects right and then you

Have uh bombs bomb squad has their own Dogs the bomb mean has their own dogs TSA and bomb dogs okay and their Narcotics Division has their own dogs Okay so we have three different units Okay so because their lap is a very Organic division the department yes so Everything's specialized there you know Which is I think it's a good thing you Know I think so our dogs only focused on One thing well we had two we had we also Had the gun detection dogs are in it as Well so if you're in wherever you're Stationed wherever that division is and There's a CR are you like a doubt near Downtown yeah so what happens is our Typical work night was that uh we do our Workout in we get a little food in our Bellies we go train okay paperwork in Metro go do paperwork at Metro from the Night before companies before and then We go train in Mass we go some place and Train we train every night every night Every night we're training wow again Another oversight piece because how am I Going to know how you operate in the Field because I see it in training okay So if you're not just in a car driving Around no no we're out training our guys Are all training they're doing their Thing and then a call comes out we go Today call in mass or if we have new Dogs in training and the Call Comes Down We realize oh it's just a couple block

Perimeter we might send a couple dogs Out there okay you guys go the Restaurant's gonna stay here training Wow okay yeah okay that's an interesting Thing so your your dog's LAPD I got it Yeah clear all right every night they're They're doing some trainings correct and Then if there's a call then you're Sending them out to to go to the search Exactly that's interesting so yeah That's a lot of training it is but you Know but we have 19 dogs too though you Know and so again we've talked about all The time these things are perishable Sure you know but I'm keeping it I want To make it as much as possible muscle Memory for the Handler and conditioned Memory for the dog condition for the dog You know so we're doing this stuff over And over again it's just the basics We're not doing anything Wazoo we're not You know we're not the military so we're Not flying out of helicopters or the Dogs wrapped our chest we're just doing Seeking you should find you know and how Many like so for the average police dog And Handler it's an eight-hour shift 10 Hour shift 10 out four to four times yes Okay and so there'll be training hanging Out or whatever maybe they get deployed That night maybe they don't right do They get to how often would you say LAPD I say who I like you guys are like They've been pretty busy but I mean even

When I was there we were getting Deployed probably three or four times You know a week yeah yeah something nice We get deployed four or five times at Night right you know you know but we can Almost guarantee we're gonna deploy it At least once every day that week that We're working yeah So if we're looking at dogs as far as Doing the greater good I would I'm going To jump out and say that I think they're Protecting more people than they're ever Hurting oh without a doubt I mean you Know and and they're a good image They're doing great great service for For absolutely for the public absolutely Especially for under circular Community Absolutely no they're they're definitely Taking care of more people and they're Putting entries on yeah that goes around Now and the dogs we see and like we Talked about with with Um Adler horse you know these dogs are Selected for genetics yes and then They're trained and trained I mean I've Been there I've never there's I've never Seen a dog accidentally bite if they're Just in their normal mode they're out There right you know but if a dog is you Know his trigger it is on is yeah It's like if you and I are in a fight Absolutely and I grab you you might hit Me absolutely you know but for the most Part those dogs are just really easy

Exactly and that's why we train so much Because we're trying to put those dogs In those positions over and over again To get that conditioning and and also For the Handler to be able to see the Dog's Behavior you know know when his Dog is getting hit his or her dog is Getting too keyed up yeah when they back Off when they dial off you know but to Go back to your point you said that the Dogs Um They protected more citizens and they Hurt people I might go so far to say They protected more suspects than They've heard as well I like that okay They have I mean there's there are many Suspects who think could have been worse Had a dog and I've been used to find Them yeah and that's without a doubt and That's not I'm not making it up and I'm Not I'm not telling you what I think I'm Telling you from the ground searches Facts there are more people that have Been going to jail with handcuffs on and No injuries because the dog was being Used and that's a fact so if we want to Really educate this assemblyman Jackson And the people because I want to get This podcast up ASAP Um we have to understand that police Dogs are there as a less than lethal Force and often less than even anything For it yes right there's absolutely no

Force absolutely because they can get There they can locate they can dominate They can with they can keep a suspect And there can be zero bites zero taser Zero billy club zero choking zero Anything because the dog is there Sometimes those people will be afraid They'll stop police and and Let's take it even step further let's Not forget that segment of suspects that Before the dogs even deployed once they Realize that dogs have to be used oh Okay yeah also the dog shows up you hear One bark oh okay I'm done so you're Serious now yeah yeah why don't you say In the first place dog exactly so and Those are the things again that don't Get fed yeah the only thing that gets Fed is the stuff that's going to stoke Fire it's going to stoke fear it's gonna Cite people and it's going to cause Division and that's the problem with it Yeah and then this is the conversation Ahead with with John Cook who is a great Guy yeah it's a really good man it Really is up to you and it's this thing That we've got to stop these I mean Imposing a bill and infusing stuff like This hurts black and brown people is BS It's just one way to get from for Somebody to think I'm not politically Correct but for oh the white guy's not Going to go against it no I'm going to Go against because I think it's BS in

Honesty my friends who are black or or Brown or whatever you want to call it Now They're more worried about this BS than My white friends who are living in Malibu of course right because they're Saying shoot our neighborhoods are going To be more dangerous now because this Knucklehead is doing this right so I Hope he watches this I hope he gets Educated and if he contacts me I'm going To give him your cell number and I hope He does this If you really know the truth go to these Neighborhoods knock on doors and find Out what exactly is their biggest pet Pivot what they really want done and I'm Going to bet you that ain't it yeah There's a whole list of laundry list of Things for you to work on yeah that Probably won't be it yeah but here's the Thing have you heard of this guy before The bill no right neither did I exactly Right exactly I got to find some way to Get out there yeah you know and that's The sad thing about it but this bill is It's bad news and I'd love for this guy To call me yeah I'd love for us to sit Down and talk about it and and you know And guy to God have a talk about it yeah Either some education bring them here With all three yeah exactly you know and So that's something we do you know I Always did we got new police

Commissioners which is our civilian Oversight sure every time we got a new Commissioner I would invite them out to The canine field and I show them how the Dogs work how they're trained because They're going to be making decisions Based on you know they're gonna have Oversight yeah so I want to educate them And and it's funny how once they get Educated You can see a level understanding like Oh that's not what I thought that's Something was just way out there just You're not going to change their mind That's just the way it is but a lot of Them they're like oh that's not at all What I thought it was yeah you know and So that's why I hope this guy kind of Gets that too well it's anything it's It's opening your doors yes you know to You know like I mean people who are you Know transgender okay Open Your Door Talk to somebody absolutely we're all Human beings every one of us bleeds red Exactly you know and they are I think That's important so I love this chat and I want you to come back I haven't seen You since last night I know and when I Say that we're gonna do it again we're Gonna do it again all right well I'm Gonna hold you to it man all right Thanks man all right brother I Appreciate it Foreign

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